Meet David Kong - a friend, ex hedge fund analyst, and founder of Somm.ai and Glasvin!
Learn who he is, why he pursued his own startups, and what he thinks people get wrong.
Meet David Kong - a friend, ex hedge fund analyst, and founder of Somm.ai and Glasvin!
Learn who he is, why he pursued his own startups, and what he thinks people get wrong.
00:00.00
charliereese
Welcome back to the devpreneur podcast as always I'm joined by Tom and today we have a special guest the man the myth the legend David Kong of Som Ai David how are you.
00:12.70
David Kong
It could I don't think I've been described like that ever probably.
00:12.89
Tom
I.
00:18.63
charliereese
I disagree just maybe not to your face David David and I went to university together where I believe he got the highest grades ever in our program. very smart very kind very hard working guy who has I think a. Could probably say a couple startups now that he's working on. But today we're going to talk mostly about so a I but before we get into that David it's great to have you here I would love if you could give our listeners just kind of ah a sixty second summary on who you are kind of like where you grew up.
00:51.68
Tom
Right.
00:54.90
charliereese
Families hobbies all that stuff.
00:55.27
David Kong
I grew up in Mississauga. Ah, funny enough. Um and like the biggest suburb in the world. Maybe um and so and like now I'm really into food and wine and obviously you don't get that in the suburbs. So I don't know if. I think my parents were very surprised at what I liked um because it was very different than what they liked. Um, but yeah, the the I mean I met Charlie at queens university um, and we actually lived in the same house right? Charlie 1 of the years I remember
01:17.79
charliereese
The end of that.
01:30.76
charliereese
That's right, That's right? although unfortunately we didn't really have overlap because we went on exchange like I went in the fall and you went in the spring. Um, but yeah, that's right, That's right and and you brought to your keyboard if I remember correctly.
01:31.73
David Kong
Yeah.
01:37.22
David Kong
Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, um, yeah and I annoyed a lot of the other housemates with like late night piano playing. Yeah.
01:47.81
charliereese
Um, annoyed slash serenaded. Yeah I'm sure the truth isn't.
01:56.10
David Kong
Um, and then and then and then I worked in finance after university ah for for three and a half years and that was in I started in Toronto but then I went to New York for like three and a half years at a hedge fund um, kind of got. I don't know what the term is I wanted just to get tired of it but like you know I kind of blew blew out of it I guess as the better term. Um and then started and and and I had the idea for samii by then so I basically started samii ah 3 years ago and then two months into
02:19.92
charliereese
Um, yeah.
02:33.80
David Kong
The starting saw me I I had the idea for glasfin. So I started that as well in and so again around three years ago and ah, you know and and and now that's all all I do is those 2 things.
02:48.56
charliereese
Wicked saw a I and Glassman and well well, we're going to jump into both of those things shortly but I kind of want to rewind a little bit to the tutoring company. You started during your underground and.
02:59.74
David Kong
Oh yeah, that 1 exam blitz.
03:04.67
charliereese
That's right Exam Blis I think everyone who went to Queens around our year knows exam Blets I Certainly do what gave you that idea and what was the hardest part of running that company.
03:13.32
David Kong
So ah, actually 2 of my friends started exam bts and I was just kind of like the um like you you might have mentioned that I had a pretty decent rank at my university. so so I think people wanted my name attached to it and so they kind of recruited me.
03:27.57
charliereese
That's correct.
03:32.18
David Kong
And actually it's a funny story they were they they were going to like they made me like sign on like an employment contract. Even though we're just like kind of like friends or whatever and I had to pick between two two different types of compensation like more fix or more variable or whatever. Um, and then over time like.
03:36.52
charliereese
Okay, yeah.
03:44.65
charliereese
Um, yeah.
03:49.13
David Kong
It became more of a partnership and we did it like a third a third a third um and then actually those 2 then like at the end left the business. So I ended up owning the entire business. So I ended up owning a business that I actually didn't um you know start necessarily um, there wasn't like anything ultra hard about.
04:02.88
charliereese
I see.
04:09.10
David Kong
That business I think it it. It taught me something which was that like it takes time for a business to get off the ground like this is almost obvious to anyone but like um I mean I don't know what our revenues were in like the first two years but they were like tiny and then. Third year we did so over 6 figures and this was in university and this was in um, you know and I was working like these are exam preparation tutorials. So there's 4 exams seasons a year and so you're working pretty much like the the.
04:29.51
charliereese
Options.
04:47.68
David Kong
Couple weeks before each exam season. So so it was like in this in that in that context like 6 figures is actually a lot like if you annualize that for your work and whatever like it's actually a decent amount. Um, but but yeah, it took took 3 years to get there.
04:49.74
charliereese
Um, yeah.
04:56.37
charliereese
The woman.
05:06.80
David Kong
Um, and also that's when I I think first realized that I'm kind of like ah just a crazy person in that like I'm always I'm always like why aren't we getting more sales and like I'm comparing it to the last-year comps and being like hey why are you know? and um and I still do that today. So.
05:18.44
charliereese
And.
05:24.90
David Kong
Those are that's probably the two things I like learned from that experience I Also I guess like also learned that I knew I I mean I knew this before too though like I I knew I wanted to start my own business. So um, but that that that gave me it also gave me a little bit of confidence I think when I started my current businesses.
05:34.11
charliereese
Ah.
05:41.99
charliereese
Um, yeah.
05:43.65
David Kong
Because I was thinking well if I could do 6 figures um, kind of part-time like you know why can't I do 7 figures working full-time.
05:52.14
charliereese
Yeah, absolutely absolutely and I know just ah, having the good fortune of being able to see some of things like exam blitz that you were involved with ah I mean you're You're definitely one of the busiest people I've ever met got a lot on the go all the time. I Feel like a lot of people don't know that about you, You're always kind of working on something but I think as a result of that and all of the kind of work and effort. You've put in to date on various things including study and building businesses. Whatever you seem to have a golden touch everything you touch seems to do very well.
06:30.66
David Kong
Thank you.
06:31.13
charliereese
Um, so so when you started Somai and Glassman I was I was confident. It was going to do well and it it sounds like it's doing pretty well. But but again I want to ask 1 more question before we jump over to Glassman and sawm ai um, you did after your. Um, successful exam preparation company. You're running while you're in university um, you did go into finance for like three and a half four and a half years I think you did about a year at the canadian pension plan and then you went to work at a hedge fund in New York um
06:59.50
David Kong
Um, yep.
07:05.79
charliereese
Why did you decide to go into finance and why eventually make the switch.
07:09.15
David Kong
So ah, I'm I'm kind of a believer in just like kind of letting the just just letting just letting letting things just just kind of take its own course and and finance is just what you would do if you were like you know someone that. Did well in Queen's commerce he kind of just went into like now people are going into tech but at least in my year really like all my friends went went into finance. Um I pick can a pension plan because um, honestly like they were the first to recruit and they gave me an offer and um, they were a good company people above me I'm still in touch with like. Just had like a call with one of the ah svps there um or or even higher whatever like like it. It was is a good company. Good people. Um and then and then I I went to a hedge fund because ah they they were very like Cbp did something that was like limiting.
07:49.69
charliereese
Um, Joe good. Yeah yeah.
08:06.73
David Kong
My ability to grow at at Cpp and so it was also just like an obvious decision to go to a hedge fund and everyone at Cbp understood why I did it? Um, so it just kind of like I think also you know when you're in Canada like you have to go to business school because you can't just. You can't just do liberal arts in Canada and so so that also limited kind of my choices. Um, after university.
08:29.96
charliereese
Yeah, it is a different dynamic. You do see for whatever reason so many people going to business school if they want to get into something like insulting finance accounting and whatever whereas in the states maybe other than accounting. Um, so many people just come from a liberal arts program and then they kind of do the big crash course before their job starts for like a month six weeks whatever which is kind of nice. You just kind of get a more rounded background in various things. Um.
08:49.46
David Kong
Exactly.
08:58.64
David Kong
I Think it's better because I don't think I like learned very much in business school to be honest like I I think it would have been better to to do like real like liberal arts. But I mean.
09:09.93
charliereese
I agree with that I kick myself and I mean you did a dual degree in math though. So so you like kind of did a real degree I didn't.
09:15.61
David Kong
Um, yeah, yeah I have a little minor in in mathematics in from Queens University Whatever that's worth.
09:28.15
charliereese
That's right, That's right? Yeah I kick myself because ah I also applied for engineering and physics and I don't know my older sister went into Commerce people I knew were going into Commerce is hard program to get into as Well. Um. And so I kind of just picked that because it's what people I knew were doing and I do have some regret that I didn't do a more stem heavy degree. Um, but you know what.
09:53.32
David Kong
I don't regret it at all personally but but like I like I I mean I mean I guess if I got into one of the ivy leagues like that that would probably be better I guess um, but but I didn't so I kind of just um, actually I did I got into brown. Um. But then I I decided not to go but that was that was the only one like like if I got into like Harvard or something I probably would have gone. Um, but but but the alternatives there weren't really that many alternatives and like and and like I am a coder now. So it's like I don't think I like lost too much by doing a business degree.
10:14.59
charliereese
Yeah, yeah, I hear you I hear him you know what? I guess you you kind of have.
10:29.52
charliereese
That's fair. That's fair you and me both. So so I guess you can't end up in the same spot Anyway, right? yeah.
10:32.58
David Kong
You can't you can't work in finance with a coding degree. Well I guess you can now but you can't you can't you typically can't work in a hedge fund with the not when we graduated. Yeah.
10:40.64
charliereese
Not when we graduated. That's certainly true unless you're going into one of the at the time few quant trading teams. Although there seemed to be more and more now certainly that's like kind of where I came from I also did a brief stint at Cpp like ah almost two years recently and they're starting to get more and more into that world and so there's more and more opportunity for that background.
11:03.62
David Kong
I I I looked into that and I don't think it paid very well like I mean I know now there's like definitely people who are more quant and you know and they obviously if their algos make a lot of money then they get a big percentage of that. But um, you know like I. I Did some research into that because I did like math a lot and so I was thinking about doing mathematical finance and my conclusion was that you actually made less money.
11:25.00
charliereese
Yeah, yeah.
11:30.45
charliereese
You know what? I think the fascinating thing is that was absolutely true at the time and I think it's still depending on where you're going true in some places today but it's finally switching based on what I saw.
11:43.42
David Kong
Like e.
11:45.80
charliereese
And so a lot of the people you see in those positions you're talking about that make more money a lot of them are quantitative now and so they've kept the position names the same. They're just slowly swapping in quantitative people. Um, but I would say like based on what I saw roughly half of people still were not even if it was kind of. Associated to a quantitative strategy anyway, I guess ah, if anyone wants to talk about quant finance come find David Kong and I but let's jump back into tech. Ah, and let's ah, let's talk about some a i.
12:13.63
David Kong
Yeah, let's go back.
12:22.47
charliereese
So you mentioned that you thought about I guess kind of the product problem. What have you forced on Ai during your hedge fund stint. Um, how did you discover that need or did it just come to you and what problem is some Ai solving.
12:30.46
David Kong
A.
12:38.90
David Kong
Ah, well the way it started wasn't exactly like and and and it's not what it is. It's not today. what what it was when I envisioned it either? Um, but when I first got the idea it was the. Observation which by the way, a lot of people have had before me that there's a lot of data in ah wine lists at restaurants that wasn't currently being ah aggregated and indexed. So that was my idea that we would. Create something that did that and I mean the use case at the time was fairly simple. It was like where do I drink this bottle of wine like what's where's the cheapest rest place I can drink this bottle of wine in New York city or if I go to a new city like which. Which restaurant should I hit up to like get my my favorite wine at the best price. So um, and and there's actually like a contingent of people who ah need that and ah we often now now we no longer do that by the way we only we only service um corporates. Ah b to b two b but like we we we constantly get consumers kind of like signing up to try to find something and then like they get blocked. Um, but yeah, so some sometime around ah the early this year. We basically launched this new product which is basically samii pro. Um, built for ah wine producers and um, spirits producers and importers and basically anyone in the wine supply chain and they use the same data that I was gathering from before in order to help them sell more wine into. Ah, the on-premise channel.
14:33.59
charliereese
Gotcha gotcha. So it's kind of to understand the market a little better. They'll user data and so you're just selling the data directly to them instead of being more B to you know.
14:42.12
David Kong
Yeah, so we we sell a Saas product it you know like we we don't dump the data. We don't sell them the the actual data. But um, they can access. It's a portal where they can kind of access. It's like like think of it as like a bloomberg ah for wine um in restaurants.
14:57.30
charliereese
Gotcha Limburgh for wine I like that. So so when you were starting some Ai or in the early days did you consider finding a partner or a cofounder or did you want to be a solar founder.
15:01.20
David Kong
Yeah.
15:11.86
David Kong
Um I was open to both options I like given the right cofounder I Definitely would have um, been interested in that. Ah, but it's it's more of like you know it's hard to find a cofounder.
15:27.63
charliereese
Um, yeah.
15:29.50
David Kong
Um, actually like I don't I Actually don't know how other people find their cofounders. Um and also like you know wine is just not a popular thing so people aren't like jumping to get get become a cofounder and something like that. So um, yeah I mean I.
15:42.92
charliereese
I Hear you.
15:48.58
David Kong
Ah, at the start like there were some people that like you know, want it like we were kind of working a little bit together but like it like basically everyone else dropped off and it was just it was really just me.
15:56.81
charliereese
Yeah, yeah, that's fair that's fair I mean I think whenever you're doing something super niche it. It sounds like it definitely does make it tougher I imagine it would so so before you took the plunge and left the hedge fund world to commit to some Ai is there anything you.
16:06.00
David Kong
Okay, yeah.
16:16.12
charliereese
Made sure you did beforehand like saving up runway building a prototype of the products potentially presales. Although I know you started b to c so probably not but is there anything you kind of wanted to make sure before you left full full time employment for some Ai.
16:30.37
David Kong
Um I I did not I did not really do anything. it's it's it's really by like the method that we left that I left the hedge fund industry like basically the markets effectively tanked around September um, and so like I was.
16:44.68
charliereese
Um, yeah.
16:49.13
David Kong
You know, like ah in the in those four months like I was pretty sure like I kind of decided that I was leaving. Um so I didn't have much time to like do any of that do any of that stuff. But I mean like at the time I didn't I didn't know how to code. So I mean I knew a tiny bit but so so so there wasn't really going to be much. Um.
16:52.89
charliereese
Yeah, yeah.
17:08.67
David Kong
I I definitely went in with the theory that if I controlled the data then someone would be willing to pay for that data. Um, and you know I was just going to it was going to take me some time to figure out who was going to pay for it.
17:26.43
charliereese
Okay, that's sensible to me. Yeah I feel like ah this style of business and I mean wine is one of the many many many many many things you could do with it but the style of business of aggregating messy kind of disparate is disparate The right word data.
17:43.71
David Kong
Yeah.
17:45.41
charliereese
Um, dispersed data and then providing some sort of tooling on top of that for people to more easily understand what's behind the data could be a really interesting business for so many different industries and use cases like 1 of the ones I really like ah. That I'll probably never build I have a list of like hundreds of ideas that I like to write down to make myself feel like one day I'm going to build them and I never do like any of them. Ah, but 1 of the ones I really like is helping.
18:07.72
David Kong
Ah, her.
18:16.50
charliereese
Companies forecast which athletes are going to make the world cup so they can decide who to sponsor because they end up starting to sponsor people at around 131415 years old and so if you can better pick who to sponsor or find people to sponsor that other people are not sponsoring. And sign people up into a contract you can potentially kind of pick someone off early much like early recruiting for a job where you can find a good candidate before someone else does um.
18:41.53
David Kong
I Love that like you're calling my my ah Andmark a niche and then your your idea is like how many pro athlete. Yeah, like there's a hundred pro Ski athletes in the world probably or whatever right.
18:47.16
charliereese
Um, that one would be very niche. Ah. Yeah I think it's about that in terms of world cup. Yeah, although the amount of people who would be sponsored with I would guess it's like around a thousand men and a thousand women for racing but like to various degrees of compensation like most of those people wouldn't really be compensated. They'd just be getting a bunch of fruit gear. Um.
19:01.73
David Kong
Okay.
19:10.86
David Kong
Yeah, yeah, your your your tam there is is a thousand is a thousand. Ah, love it.
19:14.28
charliereese
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, huge. It's huge. Um yeah, okay, cool. So so that some ai I I love the idea I think it's really cool product I think it's actually a relatively messy problem having to organize a bunch of different data. Um, especially because it sounds like a lot of the data is in Pdf for you? Um, which makes it so messy. But but then you started this other business glassman two months into some Ai I want to hear about that I want to hear about why you started that and how that's going.
19:54.12
David Kong
Yeah, so ah I don't know how it came to me but some somewhere two months in I just I was like well I want to do I want to do this other thing too. Um, and I love wine obviously and I love wine glasses and like a big like.
20:05.19
charliereese
Um, yeah.
20:10.89
charliereese
Um, yeah.
20:14.10
David Kong
Hand blown wine glass fanatic and I was and and and they were just too expensive like the the options on the market were all like $70 for for a stem one one glass and they they break pretty often so it was like kind of an annoying thing that all these.
20:31.45
charliereese
Yeah, yeah.
20:33.80
David Kong
Wine drinkers um have to deal with is just like they just keep on spending $70 over and over again. Um, and I was and I was my initial idea was I go can I like import um some of this stuff and sell that Dtc and then quickly drop that and just said let's just make it.
20:50.44
charliereese
Yeah.
20:52.24
David Kong
Um, so the question was like if we could make it and then we found out we could make it and and then and then we started selling it in Twenty Twenty Ah and it ah and then it just it kind of just like took off um and it's it's just that's been the real like.
20:53.51
Tom
I.
21:05.36
charliereese
Um, yeah.
21:11.22
David Kong
Ah, success story in in the sense that like it's just like it was just kind of a good idea and I I didn't have to like do too much and it just like everything kind of just like worked and um, kind of like what the dream scenario for when you start a.
21:17.30
charliereese
Yeah, yeah.
21:25.86
charliereese
Sure, Yeah, yeah, and so so what glasfin is I think I think you alluded to it So it's basically wine glasses that are hand-blown quality that are just um at a lower price point and more durable is that right.
21:28.16
David Kong
Start a business. Yeah.
21:43.98
David Kong
Yeah I wouldn't I wouldn't say more durable like it's it's they they are like way more durable than you would think they are um, but yeah I would say like versus competitors. They're similar durability.
21:51.85
charliereese
Okay. Um, okay.
21:58.30
David Kong
Ah, but and our competitors are are all like high quality products just to be clear like we're we're not, We're not saying we're better quality. We're um, we're just half we're we're half the price.
22:11.40
charliereese
Gotcha Gotcha So high quality high quality for less. Okay, cool. Um, so so switching gears back to some Ai um or or actually I'd also be curious to hear about Glass Ben. So Actually I guess I'm asking in the context of both. Um, how many people currently work at either.
22:28.74
David Kong
So glasfin ah no one works for glasfin. Um, ah it's just me so if you email the customer service or whatever. It's me responding. Um, it's a it's ah it's a it's I mean this is why a lot of people start Dtc companies. It's just like a.
22:32.23
charliereese
Okay, so it's just you.
22:47.94
David Kong
Fairly like everything's outsourced. Um, you know like it's just it just it runs itself almost um and so so yeah, we don't have any employees we're thinking about hiring a marketing intern so we have a posting and on at Queens and we probably we'll probably hire one intern and see how it goes.
23:04.33
charliereese
Um, ah yeah.
23:07.66
David Kong
Um, samii right now we have ah ah we have well we we have a sales guy who's more like a ah, he's a contractor's on an employee and then we have ah 5 if we have 5 interns now at sammii. Yeah.
23:16.74
charliereese
Um, yeah, oh nice. Okay, great.
23:25.19
David Kong
See how good I mean we we we had one intern and he was really good and we got another intern. Um, that was I horrible and and then we got another intern that was really good. So just I think it depends also on the intern but um also just like like work work is like picking up and um.
23:28.23
charliereese
Um, yeah.
23:41.52
David Kong
And and each each of these interns. They only work like 20 hours a week. So it's like it's it's it's both of them are very very lean, very lean operations.
23:43.90
charliereese
Yes.
23:49.46
charliereese
Yeah, that's fantastic. Okay, and so do you think that you'll be able to continue growing the companies at roughly the same size of employees. Are you expecting to need to staff up.
24:03.48
David Kong
Um, I think I think we're probably good right now and ah, you know, but like things change thing I mean with some ai like it went it. It basically went from 0 to like you know, whatever it is like we have like 15 to 20 clients now like it went. It. It did that in like 1 year so so like like I had no idea that was going to happen a year ago. So I have I have no idea what's going to happen like six months from today we might need more employees. We.
24:33.34
charliereese
I Hear you.
24:37.14
David Kong
I Mean there's I think about this all the time about like how we can improve the business and what you know one of the ways that we can improve. It might be to have more employees. Um, but yeah I'm not not sure exactly what the hiring is going to be like.
24:48.30
charliereese
Gotcha gotcha.
24:51.73
charliereese
Um.
24:53.24
David Kong
Um, we can definitely like I mean it's a Saas products right? So like we can definitely grow very ah, quite a bit with the same number of employees. It's just whether it might be better to have more employees if that makes sense.
25:04.27
charliereese
Exactly exactly So so in a similar van. How big do you think the total addressable Market is for either product if you've thought about that before.
25:14.29
David Kong
I I actually haven't thought about it like very much except like like if I you know like when I apply to yc I kind of make up a number for them. Um, but I I actually personally don't care about that like I feel like that's an important question for for an investor but it's not really an important question for.
25:22.63
charliereese
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
25:33.86
David Kong
Me like I like Reidel has 300000000 of revenue re reidtle's the ah, the biggest glassware company right? So yeah like I yeah I don't need to calculate the tam to to to know that there's a bit. It's big enough that if.
25:38.69
charliereese
Okay, yeah, so big enough is the answer for you.
25:46.95
charliereese
Yeah.
25:52.87
David Kong
If we're like you know a big wine glass company that that company is going to be worth a ton of money. Um, and Sami eyes like it's even harder because it's like and like our technology is not. You know it can be used very widely like it. It can probably be used.
25:57.20
charliereese
Yeah.
26:12.52
David Kong
By doordash and it can probably be used by like literally anyone in the in the food space. Um, you know and maybe it can be used outside of the food space I I'm no idea. Um, so like I don't want to spec I mean like the wine industry itself is like a huge. Industry um like wine and spirits is like a trillion dollar industry a year. Um, so it's pretty It's pretty easy to get to like some pretty big Tam numbers. Um, and I just honestly I don't I don't try to like. Ah, be too precise with it because it's just kind of false precision.
26:51.30
charliereese
Yeah, yeah, I understand what you're saying I think that's ah, that's a good assessment. Um, so you mentioned you had a contract employee that's a sales employee right? So that's ah, that's a big part of how you generate sales for some Ai.
27:02.65
David Kong
Yes. Yes, yes, he he's he's like a hundred percent of the sales. Ah yeah.
27:11.22
charliereese
Gotcha awesome! Okay, awesome. So so so you guys are doing basically a hundred percent direct sales right now. Okay.
27:18.69
David Kong
Yes, it's it's it's almost 100% outbound I mean we have a little bit of inbound but it's like mostly outbound. Um, there's ah it's a saas product high margins like there's a there's a lot. There's a lot of money in there for any aspiring salesperson.
27:34.20
charliereese
Yeah, okay I hear you I hear you and so have you considered raising capital for some Ai or or do you feel like there's just no need.
27:44.66
David Kong
Ah there's definitely no immediate need for ah for for capital in um, either business like I mean I also have like like I can I like I could personally put in. You know a million dollars into the business if I if if we needed a million dollars in the business right? like it's not There's definitely no capital um, issue. It's just it's more of a partnership like if if someone's going to help us grow and they want some equity like we'd obviously be open to discussing that.
28:17.84
charliereese
Gotcha gotcha. Okay, so so it would really be in case or it would really be pardon me in the instance that someone came along that could help grow the company and they wanted a piece you would consider selling a piece but you wouldn't actually be looking for funding necessarily.
28:32.85
David Kong
Yeah, not not the way that we operate not the way that we operate today like there. There would be no use for the for for you know for any like like I mean someone someone naturally was like oh like hubble like a million bucks or 10% or something like well like I'm not sure if.
28:34.65
charliereese
Ah, just kind of be sales. But.
28:50.76
David Kong
Like I don't know what a million dollars does for me like I like I I would just wouldn't know what to exactly do I mean um, it's it's like anytime you like try to throw money at a problem like I feel like it doesn't really I mean actually like it. It probably does work. It's just it. It works at a very low efficiency. Um.
28:51.59
charliereese
Yeah.
29:07.73
charliereese
Um, yeah, it's diminishing returns.
29:09.56
David Kong
Such that. Yeah, exactly. Um, but like you know I mean like could could we could we do better with if we hired some more people to like try to um, engage our clients more and try to sell like get a bigger salesforce and pay them all base out or like there's probably things that we could do. We're also at a position with some Ai that like it's still. Ah, it's still pretty much like a beta product. So ah, and it's like obviously it's like a revenue revenue generating like like fairly significant revenue generating a beta product but like and like our customers. Love.
29:35.68
charliereese
Yeah, yeah.
29:48.18
David Kong
Ah, you know they they use it and whatever they love using it. But it's just it's almost like I'd rather get the product right first before um, putting a lot of this other kind of ah marketing and um. You know all the client service stuff behind it like yeah.
30:10.59
charliereese
That's fair. Okay, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So so so you kind of alluded to it. But if you were given a hundred thousand dollars in growth capital tomorrow or let's say you decided to inject $100000 do you think you'd buy or hire another biz Dev Rep is that what you probably do.
30:27.24
David Kong
Biz Dev rep like like a salesperson. yeah yeah I think I think I think having that's probably where we would put I mean I mean like ah like more more coders are good too I mean but um, a coder at least like the way that we're doing the coding right now like we don't the.
30:29.81
charliereese
Salesperson Pardon me yes salesperson.
30:37.30
charliereese
And.
30:44.30
David Kong
It wouldn't cost hundred thousand dollars yeah
30:44.86
charliereese
Yeah I hear you I hear you wicked all right? Well thanks for sharing all of those details about kind of your background what you've been doing before and during some Ai and Glassman I want to jump into kind of just some more general questions now just to. To know you a little better and get some of those David Kong insights that we're all here for um, well we'll see we'll see I hope I hope you're wrong. Um, so so my first question is what are 1 to 3 books that have greatly influenced your life.
31:08.91
David Kong
They're not going to be as interesting as you hope.
31:20.59
David Kong
I see Okay well this now I'm going to prove that like I'm not going to say much many anything too useful after this point um I actually don't really read books. Um I think I think that's pretty rare That's pretty rare for people like me I think to like not not read books but I don't really read.
31:31.34
charliereese
Um, okay.
31:40.46
David Kong
Books I obviously read a lot but they're very rarely books like I don't even remember last book I read it's probably like li is a Rob or something in um university and it was fine. But.
31:46.82
charliereese
Yeah, so when you when you say you read a lot but not books. What do you read.
31:53.10
David Kong
Like documentation for python I don't know um ah like articles Google like I mean you're like I mean I'm sure everyone else reads a lot too. Um and like when I was in finance I just like be reading research reports.
31:59.60
charliereese
Yeah, that's where I'm at David Kong yeah
32:10.57
charliereese
Yeah.
32:11.97
David Kong
All day long. So I just like didn't have any energy or interest to like you know, read books I'm just like also like there's all all this like pop fiction pop nonfiction. It's like find it like mostly mostly like useless you know, um.
32:24.56
charliereese
Yeah I think that's a fair take yeah an uncommon but probably good. Take.
32:29.29
David Kong
Yeah, like I don't know it's ah it's just like it's like it like it sounds like super interesting like they're they're very good writers and stuff and I actually really love I love history for example, but I don't know if I really want to consume that history. In ah in a book form like I'd rather like listen to someone give a lecture about history I think um I just like also I just like like like ah I just like work too much to to spend like an hour a da hour reading like I just like if I have an hour a day I'd like just I want to like just watch Youtube or something.
33:02.50
charliereese
Um, yeah, yeah I hear you I hear that that's relatable for me I'm glad you said that? Yeah, there's only so much reading. That's right.
33:04.40
David Kong
But it could be like lectures by like a Historian but just don't want to read.
33:11.15
David Kong
Ah I'm I'm I'm keeping this the bar really low for all your future guests like.
33:21.83
charliereese
Don't read watch Youtube or read documentation for python.
33:24.87
David Kong
Yeah I hate reading documentation like if I could I mean I had this intern and he like he he sent me. He was just like oh I'm going to like document this code or like um, whatever I'm like dude like we're not a. We're not at that stage or you don't need to document your code just like sent.
33:40.62
charliereese
Yeah.
33:43.66
David Kong
Send me the shortest thing that you know I don't want to read it to be honest, it works. That's all it matters. It works.
33:45.99
charliereese
Um, yeah, ah looks good. Yeah I hear you I hear you? Um, So so my next question. Um, and maybe your answer is don't read books. But. If you could have a giant billboard anywhere with anything on it. What would it say and why a message you're trying to get out to the people.
34:10.88
David Kong
Yeah I mean I think the most profitable thing to do would be to like buy some like random coin and just like advertise that coin like to like a couple million people and like.
34:22.52
charliereese
Okay.
34:28.10
David Kong
Hope hope it goes up like a hundred times in value and then sell it. Um, but I feel like that wasn't the I don't think I don't think that was like the point of your question to be clear. Ah.
34:30.58
charliereese
A man of the market I love it. It wasn't but you know what? maybe maybe? that's why all your businesses do so well David gone because you just can't switch off that mentality. Um.
34:45.90
David Kong
Um I was thinking about this the other day is like I I'm actually like constantly just like just like I don't know what the term is like I I'm constantly like dissatisfied. Ah which I don't I feel like maybe that's like a yeah.
34:58.21
charliereese
Um, yeah, yeah, always looking for work.
35:03.64
David Kong
Yeah I don't know like like I'm stressed out about samii all the time I'm I'm less stressed about glasfin even though glass and Glassman's like twice a size not twice. It's like 50% bigger than Sam Mayi and I'm like where I I'm just like always constantly stressed by samii.
35:18.69
charliereese
What what do they say? is it in James Bond the too much and never enough kind of like that. Yeah yeah, well I like that answer if you could get a message out to millions of people. It would be to pump a.
35:24.73
David Kong
Is that? yeah that sounds like something that sounds like a James Bond film yeah um
35:37.87
charliereese
Ah, new crypto coin. Ah.
35:37.99
David Kong
Yeah, ah, potentially a fraudulent one though like I obviously I wouldn't pump it if I knew it was fraudulent. But.
35:46.40
charliereese
That's right, That's right? Um, okay so so the next thing I wanted to kind of get some of your insight on or hear about is what is one of the best or most worthwhile investments you've ever made.
36:00.41
David Kong
Oh ah, coding for sure coding um and ah and more specifically like learning how to do class-based ah object-oriented coding is pretty pretty helpful.
36:04.26
charliereese
Um, yeah.
36:17.12
charliereese
Yeah I agree with but.
36:19.20
David Kong
Um, I but I actually went back to my code from like three years ago and I'm like just completely rewriting it because it's just like it's it's impossible to to do anything with it because it wasn't based on classes and it just that's what happens when you don't have classes.
36:30.17
charliereese
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's ah relatable for every developer everywhere I think going back to old code and being like you. Yeah um.
36:37.46
David Kong
Yeah, ah.
36:46.11
charliereese
Yeah I would say that's probably also the same one for me I think learning to program ah changed all of the opportunities that were available to me even within finance because I also started my career. Ah unfortunately on the sell side. Not the buy side but but doing quasi-similar stuff.
37:02.39
David Kong
Yeah, it's it's it's absolutely amazing like starting a tech company like I mean starting a Dtc company like I know like a few things about how the world works and like I know that shipping container rates have gone up 5 times or whatever. So like there's some knowledge that you get but like when you.
37:05.61
charliereese
Um.
37:21.49
David Kong
When you create your own like software company like you actually learn so much about um, how like data is for example, how data is structured and and how um you know like you know how like search engine a search engine works for example and like. I Mean all this is like you kind of need to know some programming to do it. So um, I'm I'm also like super interested in theoretical physics because I feel like it's like it helps us understand the world and I feel like that's kind of what what coding is at this stage because everything is so code-driven that like you know, understanding code.
37:58.85
charliereese
Absolutely software is the world now like I feel like almost every big company is a tech company that does something else. You know like car companies are basically tech companies that make cars.
37:58.95
David Kong
Basically helps you understand the world pretty much. Yeah, yeah, now. Yeah like it's it's it's It's amazing like now now you can just be like okay well that's like. That looks complicated but that's actually really easy to do and then that looks easy, but it's actually very complicated too.
38:19.84
charliereese
Yeah, yeah, totally all right? So I have 2 more questions for you and hat tip to Tim Ferriss for providing inspiration for the general questions. Um. My second last one is in the last 5 to 10 years. What new belief behavior or habit has most improved your life.
38:40.97
David Kong
Oh that's a tough one I don't think my habits haven't really changed too much I mean obviously like I I went from finance to um startup so it's hard to like I had different habits like I mean I like now I don't like have to wake up at seven zero am every day which is like.
38:59.28
charliereese
Um.
38:59.82
David Kong
Best thing. Um I I went to I I took ah I took a one month stay in burgundy just like this little city. Ah I was probably the only asian guy there. Um, that was awesome I probably want to kind of do that every once a year just like spend a month in burgundy.
39:05.96
charliereese
Yeah.
39:17.90
David Kong
Which is like the center of wine. Yeah.
39:18.27
charliereese
That's the place to go if you want to want to do the wine thing. Yeah I actually know and I think I saw you post about it I can't remember if it was on Instagram or where but I was following that and it looked wicked. Yeah.
39:26.86
David Kong
I did like I did a lot of biking I was probably like I was I'm probably like a lot healthier when I'm in Burgundy Um, and I'm also I can also work perfectly from there and um, that's probably a nice little addition to my life.
39:41.94
charliereese
Okay, yeah, that's a good answer. So so so going to Burgundy for a month has most improved your life Awesome and I guess I guess ah switching to programming so you could be a little more remote has afford to do that. Um.
39:46.66
David Kong
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
39:54.42
David Kong
Yeah, and focusing focusing a little bit more on on like um, you know meeting people and stuff like like all that I feel like I do that a little bit more now too.
40:06.19
charliereese
That's yeah, yeah, that's important that's important I know I go crazy if I sit in my office for too long by myself, especially now that everything's remote. So so frequently now I I bug Tom and I'm like hey Tom like what are you doing? What do you think about this whatever send him 20 messages.
40:09.34
David Kong
Um, yeah, yeah, ah.
40:23.55
charliereese
And he usually responds and so that helps keep me sane. Um, okay, so so my last question for you is This is my favorite question. Um.
40:23.78
David Kong
Um, ah.
40:36.53
charliereese
What are some bad recommendations. You've heard from other startup founders employees and vcs.
40:42.61
David Kong
Um I don't want to like give a but honestly like I think most advice is ah not helpful is my my general sense. Um, it's just like.
40:52.57
charliereese
Um.
41:00.64
David Kong
Like ah advice is so contextual. Um that it's just it's so hard to translate and and I'm sure there's some good advice out there. But it's it's I think it's it's it's rare that if like fix fits your content, especially like when like you're doing a startup. Like almost all the advice I think that you get is pretty much ah useless um to some degree like like there's some general principles I Guess that like you know like the idea of like.
41:29.24
charliereese
Yeah, yeah.
41:36.14
David Kong
Finding product Market fit and whatever is like that's obviously like thought that's all it's all good, but like yeah, anything like oh you need a cofounder you need to raise money you need to have employees. You need to split up the role of. Tech guy and and like not non tech like all all this stuff is like probably true. Maybe it's true for like so a larger number of businesses than um than ah than 50% but um, Think it's really, it's I try to get advice all the time like I have a problem and I try to solve it by consulting people that have done it before but it's it's rarely ever applicable and the answer is usually just like you got to just do it and see how it goes. Yeah.
42:20.63
charliereese
Yeah, yeah I think that's really good take Well what I was ah going to say which is what you said is ah most advice. It's not that it's bad. It's just that it's not for you and you mentioned the context thing.
42:34.17
David Kong
Um, yes, yes, exactly.
42:37.73
charliereese
Um, I mean sometimes I guess there's advice that's bad for everyone every every so often you hear that. But yeah advice is as you said just so context driven That's ah usually you're not you don't fall into the context where it's good advice.
42:50.67
David Kong
I Think that's why like starting a business is challenging is because there is no real playbook and and also like the other way to if you want to flip it on its head is just like you know if there was really good advice and you could just follow a couple things and here's your. Roadmap to success like you know like there there wouldn't be so many. Ah, there wouldn't be this shortage of like ah successful startups and.
43:20.30
charliereese
So.
43:23.90
David Kong
Ah, all the value that accrue to people that do do so successful startups just shows you how hard it is. Um I mean it is. It's ah it's a good question because like I mean I like like Elon Musk started all these startups and they're all successful and you know like like like I'm I'm in the lucky group of people that like. I don't think we've we've had a real failure yet knock on wood. Um, so i'mm I'm sure we could distill it down to some combination but also like it's even then it's contextual because like you know what works for me as a founder doesn't isn't isn't going to work for. Ah, many other founders I don't think.
44:01.88
charliereese
yeah yeah yeah I totally agree that's a good answer cool all right? Well, that's ah that wraps up the podcast David thanks so much for joining us Tom thank you for being a silent observer. You've been. You've been locked and fought this whole time.
44:17.81
Tom
Yeah, just kind of soaking up. Everything has been great.
44:21.80
charliereese
Yeah, and David we'd love to have you back on in a year or 2 if you can find the time to kind of catch back up with you and hear how things had progressed but from Tom and I again. Thanks so much for coming on.
44:38.50
David Kong
You're welcome. Thanks for having me I appreciate it see you.
44:39.65
charliereese
Awesome! See you David see you Tom Church